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 An oh-so persistant topic among Role Players today!

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derpyderp
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PostSubject: An oh-so persistant topic among Role Players today!    Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:25 pm

We've all seen it, we've all engaged in the discussion, so why not do it all over again?

You guessed it, folks, it's the "Role Playing Build" topic again!

Lets get a feel of what kind of players we have here, shall we? Do we have powergamers, dedicated role-players, a mix of both? Let me hear...well, see your thoughts on the matter, even give an example build if you like! What is a Role Play Build for a character?

The ball's in your court, my fellow players.
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PostSubject: Re: An oh-so persistant topic among Role Players today!    Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:29 pm

Expanding the topic, I'd also like to ask what our community considers a Powerbuild, it's purpose and the looming question "How does it contribute to the server and it's players?"

Again, I return the ball in your court.
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Engineer_of_Ages
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PostSubject: my thoughts   Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:18 pm

Powerbuilds

-Usually planned out levels from 1-40 before character creation
-Stats are max/min in such a way to give them super power in few things
-Max ranks in concentration/discipline/hide/ms/tumble are common
-Feats like; Improved KD/HIPS are spammed by them repeatedly.

Roleplaybuilds

-Usually level their characters based off what happens to them in game.
-Stats are usually spread out so that during events they can make rolls needed.
-Skills are spread out into Lore, Perform, Persuade/Intimidate etc for RP control.
-Feats tend to be spread out, often seeing things like Skill Focus and Epic Reputation

Responsible Roleplaying

-Players with Improved KD who don't spam it against players
-Players with HIPS who don't spam it in 1vs1 fights
-Players with Max Lore: who win rolls in events and share the info with other players
-Powerbuilds who use their strength to help non powerbuilds succeed
-RP Builds who use their smarts to encourage interesting and exciting RP.


Notes
-If I see someone spamming Improved KD in such a way that the person never gets a chance, I will record that persons name.
-If I see Casters using Hold Monster (With Maxed Save DCs) spamming it in such a way that the person never gets a chance, I will record that persons name.
-If I give valuable plot/story/event info to a player and they don't share the info with others, I will record that persons name.


Personally I believe there are those with powerbuilds that are capable of being a great addition to the server provided they play responsibly. However if you a Lone Wolf Powerbuild solor who never helps anyone, expect to be harassed by godly powerful monsters when soloing areas.

Major differences in terms of advancement.
-Powerbuilds can often solo things anywhere from their level in CR to 5-6 CRs above their levels.
-Roleplay builds will often have trouble soloing things 2-3 levels below their CR.
-DMs will look at your build before chosing what to spawn for events often, and the number of players involved.


Note to players
-Have fun
-Play what you enjoy
-Drink Responsibly
-Think of others when interacting in game
-You don't always need to be the best
-There is always something out there tougher, meaner, more evil then you. Remember that and you should do fine.



-DM Engineer
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PostSubject: Re: An oh-so persistant topic among Role Players today!    Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:51 pm

I have to respectfully disagree with Engineer here. It's unrealistic to penalize people for using an advantage in combat, just ask anyone who's been in a real fight. You don't worry about fair play or giving the other a chance, you're trying to survive! I also don't agree people should be penalized for trying to have a strong build. My spiral in the last incarnation of the server was a straight power build intended to kill by HiPS.

What needs policing and name writing isn't the build, it's how the build is used. If the build is used to harass players inappropriately, their name needs to be written down. If it's used to exploit the system beyond what Knighty's allowed, their name needs to be written down. Not for trying to make the strongest build possible. For some of us, that's half the fun of making a character.

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PostSubject: Re: An oh-so persistant topic among Role Players today!    Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:23 pm

And now it's my turn to pitch in.

Now, here's what it means to make a powerbuild as I understand it:

You have a pretty good understanding of the mechanics of the game, you know how much of what you need to make an optimal build. The build may make sense, but it's the intention that matters. The point of powerbuilding is to try and have THE most powerful character on the server and from what I've heard already there is already one that stands out as mechanically most powerful, but I wont get into that here, if at all.

Now, the role-playing build.

This as a whole means making the character's build appropriate to his personality and skillset. For instance, I've made a Strength-focused fighter character, but I've put points into his Charisma as well. Why? Because it emulates his personality, one with a high charisma is confident, capable of exerting the demeanor of a leader, mechanically it doesn't help him for anything other than skill rolls. How well I pull it off is another matter entirely, but that's the intention.

There is nothing wrong with taking feats , raising skills and making class-combinations that make your character stronger, that's in fact the whole point of leveling up. But wanting to spend every skill point appropriately, taking every feat so that you get the most out of the bonus feats in Epic levels, every class choice pre-determined to give the character an edge, that's powerbuilding, the character isn't really "growing" if he's already been thought out from personality to mechanics. And the sad truth is, that most powerbuilds are born of a player's desire to dominate the other players with his character and not only players, but the server as a whole, trying to come out on top at every event and not only overcome, but completely trample over every obstacle in the character's way (not to be confused with an uncompromising character).


To clarify, making a role playing build doesn't mean "intentionally overlooking chances to make your character stronger" , that is a delusion that some players are under, that their incredibly shitty build is believable and more interesting and deep than the other. The trick is to find a balance between building for power and building as appropriate.

For example, take a character who is role-played to have a badly healed leg injury. The character would move around more sluggishly,he wouldn't take classes or abilities that make him move faster because of said injury, he'd have less Dexterity because of it, and he'd likely have little or no points spent in skills like Tumble or feats that are generally connected with fast movement or agility.

To make up for that low Dexterity, however, the character could easily qualify for higher Strength and Constitution, as the character's gotten accustomed to his state and has learned how to rely more on sturdy footing, rather than fancy footwork.

I could go on with examples, but I better stop before I spam up again. Sorry for the wall o' text.
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PostSubject: To clairify   Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:54 pm

Quote :
What needs policing and name writing isn't the build, it's how the build is used.

Please see the following;

Quote :
Responsible Roleplaying

-Players with Improved KD who don't spam it against players
-Players with HIPS who don't spam it in 1vs1 fights
-Players with Max Lore: who win rolls in events and share the info with other players
-Powerbuilds who use their strength to help non powerbuilds succeed
-RP Builds who use their smarts to encourage interesting and exciting RP.


Notes
-If I see someone spamming Improved KD in such a way that the person never gets a chance, I will record that persons name.
-If I see Casters using Hold Monster (With Maxed Save DCs) spamming it in such a way that the person never gets a chance, I will record that persons name.
-If I give valuable plot/story/event info to a player and they don't share the info with others, I will record that persons name.

To clairfy; I don't penalize people for their builds. Like I said it is your character, your choice, your way. I did not say penalize. However, if I see a power built character as a DM I do my best to take into account how tough they are, so that I can build and create events/encounters that would provide them with a challenge, and thus be more rewarding to them in the end. Now on the side of those who abuse their power builds to be the best of the best, well if your being cheezy by spamming skills that prevent others from doing anything at all to you, then understand from an OOC point people will not want to deal with you ICly. So avoid this as its just being a system troll. We're all friends here, and we have a great community. Think of how you would feel and act accordingly.

-DM Engineer
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Pravus Nym
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PostSubject: Re: An oh-so persistant topic among Role Players today!    Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:38 am

Engineer_of_Ages wrote:


well if your being cheezy by spamming skills that prevent others from doing anything at all to you, then understand from an OOC point people will not want to deal with you ICly. So avoid this as its just being a system troll.

This is where I still respectfully disagree with you. The point of the ability is to disable the opponent and render them unable to fight back. Same with various spells. One of my first sessions on the old server involved a higher level player using hold person to nail me to the ground and do as he liked. Though he was in other respects a problematic player, in that instance he was behaving as he should have. Using his advantage as a vampire to disable a garou in crinos form.

Step back to another infamous problem from the old server, a certain shifter whom was a pure powerbuild. On the one hand he gave the Garou an overwhelmingly powerful opponent to face against, requiring us to form packs ICly, however his abuse was not in how he delt with players (as I recall) but with disrupting the server continuity. Taking dragon shape in public areas of the city. Killing guard NPCs without letting DMs in on it. Using his DM account to give himself DM tool items he shouldn't have had as a player. As many headaches and heartaches as his OOC tantrums made for us, when I faced him ICly garou to vampire he always gave fair chance to leave without combat.

When I say players ought to be managed for use of the build, I do not mean telling them not to 'spam' an advantage. I mean are they giving other players a fair chance to avoid the fight? Are they hunting specific players down through the server party? Are the interrupting an RP to get a fight against the wishes of others? Are they doing things no Prince or Alpha would allow in public without a DM to monitor and respond? In short, are they being disruptive to the server or just using the advantages they designed?

Everyone likes to play and build different ways. I don't believe there's anything wrong with planning your leveling ahead of time as I do. To save time my characters are Badger and Jakob Silverpaw.

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PostSubject: Re: An oh-so persistant topic among Role Players today!    Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:01 pm

*deposits change to get a few seconds to talk!*

A power built-character, to me as a play who finds it hard to powerbuild, is one that is almost literally the only one on the entire server who can do what he can do, such as survive x amount of monsters/damage/BLAH.

I don't mind this one bit, unless they themselves are continually picking fights with people IC.

Otherwise, as long as they have a good SOLID rp idea/character and not some 'I'm da best of da best, f3ar meh!' sort of person, they can 'powerbuild' all they want!

-Reaperof666
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PostSubject: Re: An oh-so persistant topic among Role Players today!    Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:35 am

I'm a power builder. I construct my characters with full intention to kill both sides of the factions. I make sure I can take out Crinos Garou and Elder Vampires through any means necessary, primarily because in the last 3 instances of this server Garou & Kinfolk act retarded and like to lash out at their fellow peers or overstep their boundaries and I don't really mind bitch-slapping them into place because I like playing the bad guy and asshole.

My PC's tend to keep to themselves and unless actively sought out or lashed at, you'll rarely see me in action outside of PvE.

I don't mind powerbuilders, nor do I mind (lulz) "RP Builds", everyone has flavors they take interest in and I can respect that, what I do mind, are egotistical folks who think they're entitled to something, such as someone joining a server and saying "I'm Prince of yadayada like me" or "I'm Mistress derpherp of derpaherp" or "I'm a two thousand year old vampire who's uber pwnage even though I'm lvl 5, God-mode teimz *Epic Dodge*".

Especially Hypocritical folks. "Do this. But I'ma do dat. RULEBREAKER! *Dates fellow Garou* "


Not sure I understand the thread, is this a thread where we express our interests on the matters at hand? I love powerbuilding, been doing it for so long, I -can't- powerbuild anymore, it gets too numeric nowadays. "Shit, gotta start with these ability mods or my AB will suck, no take this skill or this will be low, crap, can't counter that unl-blahblahblah"


Anyways, those are my thoughts. alien
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PostSubject: Re: An oh-so persistant topic among Role Players today!    Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:34 am

Role playing build?

Never seen one. Ever. Laughing

Role playing?

Yeah, yeah, I think I've seen that Wink
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PostSubject: Re: An oh-so persistant topic among Role Players today!    Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:28 pm

Here is the real trick for thr uninformed or uninclined. As I too am a powerbuilder, got like 5 notebooks full of build ideas, only 6 of them really come out and stand their own well, of the 5 only 2 of them could survive just about anything. But, My days of playing action servers are long behind me. I have kids, a wife.... the time to perfect and tweek my ideas to adapt to a new build out there are long gone. I got back into playing for the fun of it.

However powerbuilders are going to have multiple characters, one melee, one archer, a bard, a sorc/ wiz, and a cleric. If they are like me there would also be a paladin wizard cleric something along the lines of 18 paladin, 7 wiz, 9 or 13 cleric.... this will give them access through scribe scroll, craft wand and if they bother with it brew potion.... this way they can mule in items to their main tank or whatever it is.... and the main will have rogue, unless they like the +1 ab from bard song...Theses alternates are called crafters. The reason so low a level wiz is simple, by crafting a scroll of Greater magic weapon.... it comes out due to NWN engine as a +5 weapon.... A 15 cleric will grant + 5 ac to armor and shield and with nature domain can take barkskin.. another +5 ac. Scrolls of shadow shield that last... and then the all famous and often cursed Bigbies Forceful hand scrolls..... This amount of fore thought is power building to me.
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PostSubject: Re: An oh-so persistant topic among Role Players today!    Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:22 am

While it is nice to say that clerics get plus 5 to stuff, as well as magi. It is sadly untrue here. Almost all spells have been nerfed to some degree. And as I find those edits which cause or invoke unbalanced things they too get edited about.

I am not going to tell a person how to rp their characters or build them. But I can require RP and limit classes which really are very abusive over all, and really kill the idea of RP in our gaming world.

The idea over all with what i build and how i build it is not to make it so one person can make the end all uber build and solo everything. There are areas which are solo-able then there are areas which require a party to make it through.

Role Play yes it happens here. I reward for it more heavily if I see that the person does not go running off living in dungeons for hours on end daily.

Power building, it happens here too. It short of me limiting every person to a rogue or fighter will happen and even then someone will come up with a power build for that too.

Long and the short of it is. One has to pick their battles. And I have choosen not to pick chomping through power building to the extreme that I could. The limits are in place 3 levels by level 20 for classes and 5 by level 40 can tend to toss off some power builds. But not all.

Thus my two cents finally *drops the change on the counter and goes home*
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PostSubject: Re: An oh-so persistant topic among Role Players today!    Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:59 pm

Powebuilding will hapen no matter what is done about it.

I'm not sure how many actually understand the concept of powerbuilding, powerbuilding can be anything from making a character solely for combat ability vs enemies, combat ability vs players aswell as things like using the servers own rules to make the ultimate powerbuild (For example, Make a will-save based paladin/cleric with ridiculous saves to use with an ability such as dominance) BUT there is also powerbuilds solely made for RP the previous example i gave could be exactly that, sucky until you get to use an ability given.

Lot of players have a plan right from the start on what kind of PC they want to make, a shadowdancing ninja, a hard hitting barbarian even this is in a lesser way powerbuilding as you surely wont take a class in bard just because your character was singing the other day when he smacked that plague body down to get his level when normally hed be praying to god, right?

The bottom line is....You can not prevent powerbuilding, since powerbuilding is going by the rules, using the rules to get best of it, more rules you make against them more ways a powerbuilder finds to get the best of it its an endless cycle.

Not to mention, powerbuilding is one of the reasons why this game remains a fun way to spend time, planning out what you'll do and completing it is the best thing about nwn, be it in RP or the combat ability, taking that out would chop off a leg on which the game is still somehow standing on despite all these years.


Oh, also: Some of the games best roleplayers are aswell powerbuilders.
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