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 Shout Out for the Hunters/Humans! (As well as Ranged Type)

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Artemis1814
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PostSubject: Shout Out for the Hunters/Humans! (As well as Ranged Type)   Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:54 am

I'll split this topic into 2 sections about my own appeal on both the Hunters and anyone using Bows/Crossbows.

1. Hunters
Let's get into detail here, we all know what a hunter is right? Remember who Van Helsing was, that total BA who kicked about 30 Vampires and a Were-Wolfs butt. Yeah I went there.

The role of power and shifting of everyone playing Vampires/Garou's due to being popular and well have better perks.

Vampires; Regeneration that scales with Blood Potions. A free portal to about anywhere, and about 5-8 different paths of abilities they can get. Arraying from DR-Spells-IC Abilities and more. Did I forget to mention a scaling negative damage that applies to melee? Who would like to pass that up? (As well as immunities as well with slight drawbacks that are worth suffering for)

Garou's; Again arraying from superior Regeneration to.. you know I'll just drop it here I don't want tp give off a feeling like I'm ranting against those who play them. I'm pointing flaws about Hunters.

I've rarely seen Hunters or Human on this server and as I've progressed from being a complete newbie to a person who've I felt I made a marginal impact to the players, I've come to notice the flaws of things but yet I cannot not point any blame due to being an unfinished server that we've all come to know and love.

Let's point out Hunters.

Idealism of Hunters: BA people who've come to be a nightmare whom those who walk the night or howl at the moon fear. Those whom would not give a second thought into sticking a stake into a vampire or making someone taste the cold silvery steel of his blade. Having years of his lineage being trained into learning the tells of Vampires true form or by telling the clan by examination of the hair of which were-wolf is in, and most importantly knowing their weakness and how to kill them. This is what makes them deadly, his knowledge of the supernatural is what separates him from mere regular Hunters of the Game (Animals and other creatures). Without it he is just a normal Hunter.

Reality of Hunters: Frail Humans who can't call out anyone or anything due to IC reasons, rules, or the fact that mechanically they suck. Their abilities don't last long, and the benefits of it doesn't even make a difference even if it lasted longer. Magic Weapon +1 Enchance is childish compared to the other races, and a 30 second buff of 5 AB/AC, and ability another for 3 Str/Con is really sad. They have no tools to actually kill a Vampire or Garou if they were to be confronted, and would simply.... die they have no chance. ICly we don't know if someone is a Vampire or a Garou unless we discovered them, which is why I took the liberty to spend time with everyone or ease drop and stalking everyone to find out who is what instead of Meta Gaming it. But that doesn't make a difference. But what I am happy is that IC'ly we have to work together for the time being otherwise I feel like I would already been Dog Food or a Blood Donation walking in the game. (Luckily I'm the fastest person in the game). Now, you can see why this would turn people off from playing a human and 99% of the server isn't human. Because of how weak I am, about everyone just thinks of me AS a human and no threat at all.


2. Ranged-Ammunition
This is my second section of the shout out for those like me are hampering. As I've seen people starting being like "Hey I'll make a ranger type guy because I really like bows and I'll make a whole story of a guy who is a Hunter or someone on last resort as a tool to make sure I don't get caught in the frontline so I can still be helpful to the team". Because of the limitations everywhere on Ammunition, it looks like it's been cracked down tighter then a ticks-... yes I used that line from Dukes of Hazard. I'll use my character for example who is the best ranged characters (Aside from Vampires who get Scaling Negative Damage). For a regular arrow I do 1d8 + 5 from my AA Ench. That's it. I can't Magic Weapon a bow or arrow. I can't enchance it any further, buffing. Nothing it won't increase. Forever the max damage I can do is 13 damage. Even if managed to hit level 40. I've started seeing people hit past the 100 dmg mark now on melee damage, and 1) They've been Vampires/Garou's 2) They have weapons that are magical, that they can buff, that scales with buffs, ect.

Now enlighten those, In a DM Event I use well over 2k Plain Arrows that's about 21 Stacks '99x Stack' with Rapid Shot I consume 5 Arrows a turn with my Feat: Blinding Speed which lasts for a minute. (1d8+5)=6x5 13x5= 30 to 60 Damage. Not bad right? Wrong sadly this is not true damage. Which encounts for 5 to 15 DR. this does not entitle to combined damage calculations, meaning it's individual shot. Meaning it's about 1 to 8 Damage to No Damage. Sad. "Oh but you didn't mention about anything about your crit damage!" You are quite correct to acknowledge that because I intended to not to share it because 50% of everything on this server is crit-immune. On chances that I do crit is about 40 damage which is actually not bad IF I critted all the time.

Now lastly, the cost of a mere extra 1d6 which would make me happy enough to skip around like a gay guy saddens me is.... 4k Gold. Let me tell you, I have about 5k gold on my character and it took me a week to get it intentionally. 4k for 99 Arrows is well, robbery. And it would only last me on about 4 mobs.

As of now It's disappointing me more and more as everyone else's damage is scaling higher and higher and mine has been staying since I was level 5. As I've done calculation's I've done even testing to show that if I made a level 5 Cleric I could do more damage then my level 25 Archer on a NORMAL Module. On this module I would do almost double, thus being almost 4 more times damage then my Archer.

Please see reason and at least help Hunters at least be on Par, so that it will be both enriching to both already Hunter Players or new players that were to come instead of making one and then changing later because they were too gimped. And as well something that will solve the arrows issue, making them cheaper... way cheaper. Or making a way to make them. It would only be fair.

I hope no players that play seek to cause a conflict or to challenge me on this or by any means feel like they are attacked. I have no means or have said anything to make anyone feel like it. I've posted this to show the flaw in my own Race that I play, not to call out the others. People tend to get uptight and defensive when a Class/Race/Ect gets called out of theirs, that's why I simply made it about Hunters and the Issue of Ranged user's. So please set aside your pride if you just skimmed through this and just responded to cause a commotion. I'd respect anyone who agrees or someone who doesn't agree offering a constructive criticism.
(I have quite an issue with things like this as you can see.)

Thank you for taking your time reading.
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PostSubject: Re: Shout Out for the Hunters/Humans! (As well as Ranged Type)   Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:28 am

The plain normal arrows cost 2 gp a piece for 99 stack...where are you buying yours? I can understand if the damage bonus arrows cost more. (They should really cost less though)

But im on the same side here, the problem isnt alone that of hunters its the same for every race really. Clerics, druids, sorcerers, wizards,paladins, heck even bards are more powerful than your average fighter who doesn't rely on any magic (in this case an archer) the items arent really supporting to any non-caster its understandable to want low magic server but with high levels, that just doesnt work.

What comes of hunter abilities i think they are being redone currently? Cant be sure of course, but most abilities that the vampires get is nearly on the same level as hunters unless you pick specificly combat oriented disciplines (Potence/Fortitude) only thing vampires really get to add is the negative damage bonus and tiny str increase, something that should be given to hunters aswell i agree in form of divine/magic damage.

Think you're misunderstanding vampires however: Vampires dont get a free portal, only those with thaumaturgy. Immunities are insignificant (Poison and disease aswell as slight negative and cold damage immunities) The weakness' ? Just about anything: Healing magic, death magic, divine and fire of which only one is an actual real weakness as per lore, they are healed my negative energy damage spells (only spells mind you) which no monster in the server uses. The disciplines are there, the abilities mostly serve IC purposes as i said only very few add to combat ability.

Hunters do have some very nice items however, im not sure for bows specificly but in example a blessed weapon has Holy Avenger property to it (Sadly if you're not paladin this prop is useless) Think you have the bad luck of choosing the wrong path for an effective hunter character though as the blessed weapons do make a difference for the whole hunter class.


Curious though how much Arcane archer you actually have? The class has a potential to be really devastating with one of the higher base damages and abs in the game, granted you must take a LOT of it (29-30 by lvl40)...And only other way to make archers even half-way decent is by, once again picking cleric for example, for its damage bonus, this is a fact on many servers and mostly just the game itself.

Bottom line is...I do agree, hunters should be one of the most dangerous things in the server.



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PostSubject: Re: Shout Out for the Hunters/Humans! (As well as Ranged Type)   Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:49 pm

Quote :
Think you're misunderstanding vampires however: Vampires dont get a free portal, only those with thaumaturgy. Immunities are insignificant (Poison and disease aswell as slight negative and cold damage immunities)

Not entirely true. The disciplines are all useful as far as I've seen- Protean, I believe? Has some decent self buffs (2d6 damage at level 2), obfuscate is great- try telling Brenard Obtenebration isn't useful as a discipline. Do it. I use Obten junk more often than spells sometimes.

As for immunities, damage, etc- These all scale. Vampires get a few weaknesses, yes. But also they get: Scaling immunities, scaling negative damage, and a scaling strength bonus even without potence. I can get logged in later and list off the stuff Brenard gets even before level 30, even without his relatively potent disciplines, gear, etc.- but that's not the point.

Archers don't get much love- there are craftable arrows, in stacks of 20, for the same material cost as an unlimited use dagger. And I don't even know what the arrows do- tinkering doesn't seem worth it save to specialized characters anyway, so.

Hunters don't seem to get much love either, and the fact that all disciplines, auspices, powers etc are undocumented for this server only hurts that. The part where a Hunter is the same as any human doesn't really help matters.

Vamp immunities aside, from a pure "OP'd Damage" standpoint, it's something like..

Crinos Garou > Hipnos Garou > Kindred > Glabro Garou > lupus garou > base human. Maybe hunters could get some scaling buffs of their own, perhaps, representing being resistant to the darkness of monsters?
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PostSubject: Re: Shout Out for the Hunters/Humans! (As well as Ranged Type)   Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:47 pm

Proteans damage bonus is to unarmed combat only as far as i know (Or atleast should be...what with the growing nails and what not) Obtenebration is only accesible to one clan and only useful obfuscate ability is obfuscate 4 with the improved invisibility, which doesnt last long, making a terrible waste to use blood points on it(Obfus got a heavy nerf). And i did mention the immunities but they are all rather pointless what with the servers monsters none use cold damage or negative damage, the disease/poison immunities only help at low level. The scaling str bonus goes up to 3/4, thats it.

Im not saying all the disciplines are useless im just saying very few have any combat value and some clans dont even get access to these useful disciplines.

Heck even still, all vamp disciplines pale in comparison to crinos form.






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PostSubject: Re: Shout Out for the Hunters/Humans! (As well as Ranged Type)   Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:48 pm

I will try to hit on some things.

First of which is this server is greatly effected by what happens in it during DM events. Means if in an event a certain NPC is kill that means that I remove the NPC in server mod. This both can help and hurt you. That also means that if you do not see something IE. A certain type of tree or certain animals it is for the reason that given the conditions in the server’s environment can not support said things. The island has been dark for nearly 4 years birds, prey animals and some trees could not survive with out the sun.
Next archer love. Well there is a reason why I broke the darkness even though I did not want to. That is so that in all sensible reasoning can add in things like birds and rarer trees. This will allow crafting of things. But again there is a post on these forums where it asks what important things are needed for certain types of crafting and no one uses it. These types of things are not bugs thus I do not really look at the bug forum when adding things in.
Disciplines- Well they are all in the works right now. The basic 8 already got an over haul. The others are coming too. I just have to have the time to script them. Garou are in the pipeline as well. Hunters only have 3 displines. Only one which is promised to be given out to hunters as it is universal. Which are pretty set but they are being looked at too.

On the Subject of Hunters-

Hunters are normal humans. If you took being a hunter thinking you were going to be able to easily beat in a Garou or Vampire’s face you are very much looking at the wrong faction. Hunters get their own unique powers which helps them be closer to par with vampires, and Garou. Now then… That said hunters have some sizeable advantages that other factions do not. First being they can get gear with their points should they wish to be the Van Hellsing style of hunter. One of which has a special onhit property, this effects players and NPCs alike. You can not add the onhit property to a bow, why? Well because your not hitting with a bow your hitting with arrows. Hunters are the only ones as well which break gear rules I have in place. Other PCs who want to make items half as good as the hunter items have to spend a RL month looking for the needed parts and working on the item, then it will be only partially there, and cost them xp. Yeah it sucks (has a toon that did it and it cost 30k xp to do it). Why does it suck well the answer is this is the world of darkness. It is not dnd magic items do not fall from the sky, and magical powers all have a cost, some times the cost is most dire indeed.
Hunters other advantage is that they are the only group which has 6 level powers. These powers all give until said under some epic spell.
But in the end a lone hunter with a lone vampire or garou of equal level is not going to likely come out on top with out some serious planning in advance and catching said supernatural with its pants down. Hunters have the same advantage that Normal humans have. You get enough in numbers with something you WILL over run the supernaturals. Why do you think all the groups have a do not be seen policy.

Ending notes-
In the end people need to not be taking things for the POWERS. It should be being done for the rp. This is why there is no list in server or on the forums of powers to take. (though this is a two fold reason) Some groups disciplines make and force this to be so. Such as garou, who HAVE to RP with spirits, to get their powers.

If you want to know who is easiest to get their powers it goes Vampires, Hunters, and Garou.

In WOD the power balance should be as this to a degree.
Pack of Garou > Elder Vampire > Crinos Garou>Hunter>Human


Just so every one knows yes I am working on things. No I have not forgotten you all. Hunters are getting love even if people do not see it. Adjustments in scripts are not always easy to see or spot. But everything is a learning and adjusting game, it takes time to try and get a balance which is right.

That said I finished up two parts to the hunters this morning which I have been working on for a while. They are in now to be tested.
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PostSubject: Re: Shout Out for the Hunters/Humans! (As well as Ranged Type)   Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:04 pm

I get that you want the choices to be for rp, but documenting changes is more of an ease of use/courtesy thing towards the players than powerbuild prevention- it's easy to powerbuild without information, but it's harder to keep up as a non-powerbuilder if you don't even know what you're getting into.

Edit: At the very least, a place giving a vague explanation of how things work would be nice, if only so we don't keep getting this same thread- I had no idea Hunters worked like that on this server, and if the highest level (I believe) hunter player didn't either, that's kind of an information availability issue.
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PostSubject: Hunters are just glorified...   Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:35 pm

On this server, Hunters... for an analogy. A Blackguard is just a Glorified Anti-Paladin(Which happens to be a real base-class). Hunters are just Glorified Humans... without the Glory... their just Fied Humans. Seriously no joke.

If a Hunter can't stand to a Vampire or Garou face to face, what does that leave us at? It doesn't entitle to a Hunter to very much. I'm the kind of guy who doesn't follow trends to be the "OP" or favor the "Fotm". But I would also hope it would entitle to it being some what balanced instead of having a carbon-clone where everyone is mass producing Cleric/Sorcerer's/Ect because they come out on top on low magic servers. Because that's what happens to games like this where it becomes another "Zombie Survival" Where everyone runs Cleradin's because they come out leaving no contrast or uniqueness. In a party there should be diversity where everyone could contribute to the group. But where High Magic User's or Magic-Melee whom are under Garou or Vampire's do anything at all while I have to stand in the back feeling like I'm leeching off the party.

I'd hate to say it, being your server and all. But I disagree with the fact that hunters should be last and that they have no chance against supernatural. Like I've said, Hunter's spent their entire 'LIFE' learning to kill these creatures either through vengeance, lineage, and necessary training of the wits and strength. That's what sets them apart from normal humans. A Hunter that can't hunt is just a human, and thus to correct what you said. Hunters AREN'T mere humans.

It'd be quite pure biased and wrong to stay like this. I feel like I hit a double negative, first by taking Hunter for the flavor of being something different and hoping I'd be on par(I was wrong), second by being a ranged arrow knocker because everyone can put together a OP Cleric, Sorc, you get the point build. (Sadly screwing me even more). If I wasn't a man who did this, I would've trashed my character week and a half ago and made a Cleric/Monk/- Barb/Fighter/or WP easily passing 40+ AC and Insane Buffage to the max to melee damage. Sadly it's a shame like builds like those take the spots light. Even more a shame where Custom Races happen to takes the role in that. No matter what server, there will always be favoritism, but Hunters have no love. True gear may compensate, but it's conditional. It came out to a point that I wasn't powerbuilding in the end and sadly I literally have have no chance because how royally screwed I am for not powerbuilding. If a regular player came on they wouldn't have the same attraction that I have still for my character and just remade for disliking how their character came out. For a personal question, Do you really want someone to choose a Race or Class JUST because it is better then others? And hitting others with negatives leaving them out because they didn't want to follow a trend. It's not my server, but if more people were to give this a try (Which does happen) to either be turned off because the only way to do anything is by being a Certain Race/Class. To tell you the truth I had brought my friend to play this game and told him to give it a chance like I did. He only played for 2 days having me level up each race for him on my Hunter, and then telling me exactly "I'd hate to say it to you, but I can't play this game because I'm too restricted" And it then opened my eyes a little more about this server and to finally make a post about this.

Albeit they may have abilities reaching to 6, or gear. Can it really put them on par? I wish I'd have a new shiny bow that can poop out magical arrows named Ginger. But in seriousness, in my belief there should be more of a balance like this.

Elders/Pack Leader > Garou/Vampire/Hunters > Humans

Sadly if I could give numbers 2-12 of Power Grid 12 being the Strongest.

Example: Class | Race - Garou 6 - Vampire 6 - Hunter 3 - Human 1
Cleric 6 - 12 12 9 7
Sorcerer 6 - 12 12 9 7
Paladin 6 - 12 12 9 7
Bard 5 - 11 11 8 6
Wizard 4 - 10 10 7 5
Druid 4 - 10 10 7 5
Monk 3 - 9 9 6 4
Fighter 3 - 9 9 6 4
Rogue 2 - 8 8 5 3
Ranger 1 - 7 7 4 2

12 = The cream of the crop
11-9 = Able to do all content both PvE/PvP relatively to IC
9-7 = Able to do PvE confidently
7< = Can be okay, but falls off the band wagon mid-level.

(I just slapped this up in 10 seconds to make a point, so you don't have to correct the grid. But am I correct that this is pretty much dead on?)

Again I like this server, there's alot of friendly people that play and it has so much potential. But I'd hate for it's only flaw of favoritism to be it's fallback from keeping it playable. I wasn't asking for a level 20 having the chance of killing a level 40. Or a Zombie killing an Arch Angel. I was more of saying a Level 10 Hunter vs a Level 10 Vampire should be able to go either way. But in reality it's a landslide to the Vampire because well, he happened to pick Vampire. Class vs Class shouldn't be like that either sadlyAnd apparently we have people who feel the same, because 90% of Player Base isn't Human as Mains(None Alts). I'm not here to cause any trouble, I'm just expressing my feelings that surely others have felt as well.

Essentially I'm playing a Twilight module where there's Team Edward (William) and Team Jacob (Growls). And I'm on team Bella where I'm just there to look pretty. Thus concluding my statements.


Last edited by Artemis1814 on Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Shout Out for the Hunters/Humans! (As well as Ranged Type)   Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:54 pm

Having played a vampire to.. 27, ish? He's entirely right. No, seriously. Play a vampire to just fifteen or so. Then try to do the same as a hunter.

It's painful. Custom hunter gear is nice, yes it is. Do not get me wrong. But large amounts of money are only attainable in certain ways, and level 6 charms aren't available till, what, level 32? It's a painful path till then unless you only play during events, or have a vamp or crinos farming partner.

Hell, how about this. Give hunters a "Hunting mode." Something like a weak, human glabro- you take certain penalties, but gain the equivalent of a long-term adrenaline rush. Make it five minutes per hunter level, minus cleric, sorc, druid, and wizard level.
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PostSubject: Re: Shout Out for the Hunters/Humans! (As well as Ranged Type)   Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:16 pm

Quote :
Essentially I'm playing a Twilight module where there's Team Edward (William) and Team Jacob (Growls). And I'm on team Bella where I'm just there to look pretty. Thus concluding my statements.


I laughed for an entire uninterrupted minute. Anyway, how about this:

Hunting Mode
The hunting takes on a preternatural focus, urging his disciplined body into feats of might and glory usually unseen among baseline humans- this focus or zeal allows them to nearly hold their own against the forces of darkness, while giving them a higher chance of survival.

The Hunter Mode is a widget giving the hunter a few bonuses- the bonuses last for 2 turns per Hunter level.

Hunter level is determined by Character Level minus Caster level (Cleric, druid, wiz, sorc). So a 30 fighter/10 cleric has ten "Hunter levels." Hunter levels will henceforth be referred to as HL.

You can use your Hunting Mode a number of times equal to 1 + HL/10 (Adds one for every ten hunterlevels), to a maximum of five times per day.


Usage (Note: These all start at level one.)
For every ten hunter levels, Hunting Mode gives the user +1 regeneration for its duration. (Maximum +4 regen)

For every eight hunter levels, the hunter gains +1 typeless AC for duration. (Maximum +6)

For every five hunter levels, the hunter gains +2 spot, search, and listen. (Maximum +16)

For every eight hunter levels, the hunter gains 10% damage immunity to negative and positive damage (60% maximum)

For every ten hunter levels, the hunter gains one vampire-like damage bonus to his attacks, though the damage type should be magical or divine. (Start at +1d6, then 1d8, then 2d6, then 2d8?)

For every five hunter levels, he gains a +1 bonus to his dexterity, constitution, and strength. (Max +6)

That's it. Feel free to suggest alternatives.

Basically the idea is a hybrid of human, garou, and kindred playstyles-

From human, I took the idea that this is a "mundane" ability, gained through training over years of being a hunter- it's pure concentrated skill for a short time.

From kindred, I took the fact that you start out kind of iffy, but definitely a short cut above a normal human, but eventually get better with time and training.

From garou, I took the whole "You have to activate this form or you're a regular dude" idea.

Having Hunter Levels not include caster levels is incredibly integral to this idea- else you'll just have op hunter-clerics running around being awesome anyway, and that's not a good direction for a server to go: Having come from quite a few "Low magic item" servers, it always goes in the casters favor unless the server admins are willing to work to make non-casters at least more interesting.

Take it, leave it, or make it your own, I guess, but Artemis is making valid points that are raised constantly on other low-magic-item servers.

EDIT!: The duration is important to- gives the message that unlike garou, a hunter can't hold together his mundane focus like a werewolf can stay crinos'd indefinitely.
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PostSubject: Re: Shout Out for the Hunters/Humans! (As well as Ranged Type)   Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:36 pm

To A_Paladin, I am quite thankful for your truthfulness and to give you credit for testing it first hand. I won't be able to hit level 6 abilities at level 40 unless I sold back my gear. Because of my double negative hit. I'm doing 3 to 0 damage at level 25. Compared to those at my level or 2-4 levels higher then me. Is that really fair? That's with my Wizard Buffs, my Feat Spells, Hunter 2-4 Abilities up. I do mere 3 to 0 damage the other night. This is aside from things under my level where I can hit them for 8 damage and crit them for 20 damage. Smile (T-T). Conversion to basement Rats it goes from 13 normal 40 crit. This is coming from someone who took Arcane Archer first hand and IS playing it right now. So I know what I'm talking about. It costs 4k to add 1d6 to my damage that would last me a minute in a fight that Vampires get permanent which scales dwarfing my temporary bonus damage. That's why arrows should be sold ALOT less, or again being able to be crafted a long time ago.

Let me tell you my story of leveling my Hunter. It was hell. Literally I spent so much faith into my character and just because I have a emotional attachment to things I make(should I get that checked out?) I was able to stick with him this far into the game. From having numerous people to level me up, piggy backing on events. Farming to no avail. When I first made my character I remember I had to have someone help level me at Plague Body's. I'm not ashamed to admit it. Someone was generous enough to have leveled me at plague body's to give me a start because they told me that being a Hunter was totally gimped. Then I faced being brought to a DM Event with rituals in the basement. I didn't know what she was talking about till recently where it started to show at level 16+ (But having not tried a Vampire/Garou until I finally made 20 I felt a huge power trip difference). I can surely say this with no doubt, I would have not made it this far without the help of being leveled by the kind players on this server and the dm events that you guys kindly take your time to make for us. I can only remember about 5 levels by my own I've been able to level myself because I was able to handle very EASY easy easy easy creatures that other races wouldn't have bother to killed because they would go to a stronger place at my level. I farmed about 100-200 creatures a level either from Minotaurs which took me about a minute to kill each or Crabs/Snakes 40-60 which I'm not gonna lie lost my first soul piece. And someone had helped level with me. And I have really nothing to help show for or be able to repay the kind players. Because they would do the same with or without me in an event. That's how much I don't impact a group. I'm just another head to have conversation with. I'm scared to say that maybe my team mates are laughing because I'm doing 0 damage at level 25 during events and would rather have me sit in the back and watch then have me be a burden on them wasting heals on someone doing no damage. Luckily RP that wouldn't sit well, and the player base isn't like that. <3

Off-time I made a Cleric-Vampire, and I hit him up to level 13 in about 20 minutes just to see what it was like solo. Damage = MWE+DarkFire+Vampire Neg Damage+Greatsword, It was crazy I was smacking things for almost 60 damage non crits. That's about it.

I'm predicting soon that no one may play humans anymore unless forced to, additions or changes, and otherwise alts. It's not something anyone's gonna Main in aside from me. :/

P.S. I can't level by myself anymore... *rolls eyes* Anything that gives me xp now I can't kill 1v1 unless blowing everything I had along with the last of my Piercing Arrows that I found. Got 156xp for 4k worth of arrows!
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PostSubject: Re: Shout Out for the Hunters/Humans! (As well as Ranged Type)   Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:42 am

If your spending 4k in piercing arrows that is not my fault any more. There are now Blessed Arrows in now. Which with my Hunter who has unfavorable reaction can by them for 155 gp, which is a far cry from the 2k per arrow bulk for piercing arrows. Plus they will do a bunch more damage than a piercing arrow ever will with their special onhit. It is a difference from 1d6 to 2d6.

I have seen and played hunters up to 15 and 25 with little to no problems going solo. It is possible for doing it. The server is designed to allow soloing up to a point then after that grouping is needed.

Heck Raed a human got up to level 25 with nothing more than basic gear, and no spells. So it is possible to do it. So it might be hard but it is doable. The books even say that the life of a hunter is not going to be easy your not going to just run toe to toe with a supernatural of high power as a high hunter. Specially as I am not allowing True faith as per the book due to Exploitative issues before I learn from my lessons well. Garou are big furry blenders when they get going and the only weakness they have is already in via blessed weapons.

Your Hunting mod is something that exists but only if you have an artifact which can be good or ill which will change your person some times or not. But I am not just handing out artifacts they are not grown on trees. They are very hard to get items which some hunters look for their whole lives, and most never find them.

As for the gear working or not working. All my testing I have done with various not mine hunters who are not spell casters show it does even the playing field at their basic level. I do test stuff via a roommate, to see what needs to be adjusted. But hunters also hunt as groups, either with humans they have gotten to work with them or other hunters. There are reasons why mobs are feared (not talking the npc bad kind either).

I am doing and adjusting what I can at this point. But I am not likely going to go off book to do somethings, with out keeping to the world itself. After what I have in is tested I will be tweeking what needs to be done. For now I have put in the things to adjust the hunters, the prices are a far cry from what they used to sell for. (11k for the helm from the 29k it used to be). Hunters earn points for other things besides just dm events and leveling. People can earn points from IC forum posts, Indepth rp over time, bios, keeping their actual journal on forums. There are alot of things to get points.
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PostSubject: Re: Shout Out for the Hunters/Humans! (As well as Ranged Type)   Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:50 am

I'm just going to say one more time that a lot of this could be avoided if any of the information you just posted was somewhere on the forum besides right here. I get not wanting powerbuilds, I do. But not documenting things is punishing the group for the acts of a few people- it's more efficient and painless for everyone involved to punish the people causing the problem.
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PostSubject: Info..   Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:04 am

Just a few notes, Knighty is doing her best to get things up to snuff. Things change and she is working hard..(By self) to get the server more and more to where it needs be. I understand everyone has wants and needs as well as wishes to have their pc the best it can be. Fact is it will not happen over night. I could go on about certain things as well as certain situations that have been going on the server but all that can be done is being done. As stated before the server will always be in flux do to events as well as what others do on it. Unlike some servers very few things here is set in stone.
All I can say, give the woman sometime and try to understand. This world is something she created for people to come and play, relax and perhaps make a few friends. Not everyone will see this server as the next and everyone will always have oppinion's Remember, oppinion's are like assholes, we all have one, some just stink more then others). I have been on most of her versions of this server and seen the good, the bad and the dumbass. It is always easier to nit pick and find mistakes, but all one can ask is take a breath and have fun and let the girl work.
*These oppinions are in no way endorsed by those of the GM's or god like beings of this server*
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PostSubject: Re: Shout Out for the Hunters/Humans! (As well as Ranged Type)   Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:10 pm

I would to add that While Crinos Garou is Baseline the most powerful
Of the Abilities combat wise on the server, it like Hispo forms shouldn't
be use around non-garou... the whole 'The Veil shalt not be Broken"
line in the litany and all. which is meant to be the limiting factor for Garou
in that most their power only gets used as more of a last resort or on
their own Packs, unless they intended to kill whoever there with as well
or watch them run away in Delirium otherwise... which is why I honestly
dont care for the whole Event Forced working together as it leads to
Destroying the Veil and Masquerade as everyone goes all 'special' mode
In front of the Humans and Hunters like its no big deal

This whole limiting factor is also what should be helping limit Spellcasters
seeing as they should be afraid of being killed for practicing Witchcraft.


*on a side note*
When i Made William i was expecting to maybe be able to gain 1-2 Garou
allies that would have had to be kept in Secret, since in reality of WoD
it can get not only him, but also Ashley killed by both Factions for it
but Nope... no risk, turns out Garou were told to be friends with
the Leeches so free shifting and Bloodsucking for all

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PostSubject: Re: Shout Out for the Hunters/Humans! (As well as Ranged Type)   Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:27 pm

That last bit changed as of the latest update. Make sure Ashley checks with the Alpha to get it clear, IC.

That said, yeah, I was sort of expecting a bit more... subtlety, but when it comes down to it, my character is a druid. If she can't use her druid powers against ridiculously obvious (as well as powerful) supernatural things, then she's going to straight die.

I (And my character) would happily move the battle outside of the human observation, and has done so in the past when given the chance to. Being mobbed by like ten people who immediately start shooting you for 1/5th of your health when you load into an area doesn't exactly bring 'hey I should try and move this battle elsewhere' to mind so much as "JESUS CHRIST I NEED TO DO SOMETHING TO SURVIVE OH GOD".

Basically: When I'm surrounded to the point that 'run away' isn't an option, yes, my character will start throwing about magic. Better to break the Veil and save lives than die and let everyone else die.
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PostSubject: Re: Shout Out for the Hunters/Humans! (As well as Ranged Type)   Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:11 pm

What Summer said. Ben tries not to like. Be an obvious vampire when surrounded by humans, but when the humans start dying and slash or the actual sky starts attacking everyone, is the exact moment he's going to make sure everyone can live now while accepting (or murdering) consequences later on.

It doesn't help that vampires aren't sneak immune and the targets are generally him or William in those event fights. Ha ha ha losing a fourth of your regen enhanced fully buffed AB every 3 seconds in a massive area filled with laggy enemies through three types of DR. (and you can't cast harm on yourself, jokes on you)

Honestly on the magic bit- that's nwn's fault. Nonmagical classes are just straight up worse, forever, and to be useful in the sorts of events/monsters/whatever that show up in NWN/this server you need to be lit up like a friggin' Christmas tree-

I was under the impression WoD magic didn't have visual effects anyway.


I'm not whining or anything, of course. Just.. stating the fact that a party of fully buffed kindred/garou-in-crinos will die demonstrably less than a party of people pretending to be humans while fighting Giovanni-ability-using-sky-demons-that-are-clearly-supernatural-and-definitely-going-to-kill-any-normal-human.


GRANTED. I might be looking at the wrong problem. The spawns seem to be adjusted to include all eight+ people present at the events, when they might be better off being adjusted for the four people actually fighting, and not the rest of the people in the back making snarky comments about how awesome they are.
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PostSubject: Re: Shout Out for the Hunters/Humans! (As well as Ranged Type)   Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:35 pm

About time to wrap this up, so I'll just top off the change jar...

While reading this all in one sitting, I foudn myelf nodding throughout the entire thing from everyone's comments. Now, the only thing that I can probably be of use of to say is one thing.

As a HUMAN (no hunter shananigans), Raed has managed to make level 30. Now, considering that I have only bought gear available to everyone (I love the Gypsy's and the Masterworked Armor!) that took me MONTHES to get, starting when the server was first up, that is PRETTY GOOD. And, out of those 30 levels, 26 of them I earned myself with no events and such. And I'd like to keep in mind myself that I have no idea what powerleveling is myself, and his levels currently are

22 Fighter, 8 Champion of Torm, and hell if I know what else depending on what happens.

And considering that I also have tooken a balence between combat and 'non-combat' feats (every non-fighter feat I've taken has only given me a bonus to save or has been something such as Epic Reputation, which I'll simply comment, gives him no useful bonuses for he doesn't have a class skill in any of the bonuses), I am even suprised that he is still alive, let alone that high in level.

A typical hit from his Quicksilver Bastard sword deal anywhere from 20-ish to 30-ish, which isn't half bad, then when criting it bumps up to somewhere around 60-ish to 70-ish. And whohoo if I got a crit range of 17-20, anyone and their grandma can do that >.> And this is WITHOUT DR.


Apart from this, standing at a nice level 16, 'The Reaper' is my hunter character, wielding a GreatAxe.

Build is an off-switch between Barbarian & fighter, currently 8 & 8. That is fo far planned till level 20..

Simply making the character a HUNTER, I feel twice, if not three times as powerful. The equipement give A HUGE BONUS THAT I WANT TO YELL AND SCREAM ABOUT ALL DAY! He makes Raed look like a wussy, and is only half his level.

Now, I don't know about you, but Raed has only 'encountered' a vampire once in a life or death situation, and barely got out alive (mind you he was paralyzed from the neck down and still would've fought to the death somehow...) and he got out ONLY because the vamprire willed it. I feel WAAAAAY more confident in 'The Reaper' standing in this situation a bit longer than Raed did.

And if Reaper was even 5 levels closer to Raed, I'm confident that He would do some damage to any supernatural being he met, but probably wouldn't come out alive becuase of the superpower of the, well, supernatural. We ARE talking about humans here. Which leads to the mobbing thing that was stated earlier.

All in all, Hunter fits where it is suppose to be...

And the Ranged thing, well, you win some and you lose some. A sword, in reality, does more damage than a bow, and will always. So, sorry ya lost that one ^.^

Reaper out.
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PostSubject: Re: Shout Out for the Hunters/Humans! (As well as Ranged Type)   Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:29 am

I've barely been on lately in NWN at all (RL, yay...), but I feel I have to pitch in here due to my main also being a hunter.


Val isn't even level 10. And I have had zero problems playing with her so far; she's a ranger, and I'm finding the dungeons she heads into, unless they're well above her CR, rather on the easy side.

I don't even know how to spend her faith points.
She has no powers.

And I have absolutely no complaints in playability. I'm not out to direct PvP a vamp or a garou with her, unless innocents are being threatened and she has to lay down her life to give them time to run to the hills. She doesn't even know any supernaturals, despite associating with them rather frequently. If she did, she'd follow them home and kill them in their sleep, for which I'd have to grab a DM, because that's as much a perma risk for her as for the supernatural. I rolled her not expecting to rock or anything. I expected her to seriously suck and I have to say, for someone who's utterly mundane and only has her status as an official inquisitor, she does just fine.

Stop looking at the supernats and how they're better. If you're facing them head on, alone, you should know damn well that your hunter is going to die. That's not how hunters operate. Van Helsing did not charge Dracula waving a sword, he tried to murder the thing in its sleep. Food for thought, perhaps....
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